Clear Word vs Bible: Drinking Wine

 

Wow, looks like they felt the need to delete something over there on that verse to the right?  Why would they just axe that out if they didn’t feel this verse contradicted SDA teaching?  Does it make SDA uncomfortable to read a verse directing them to drink wine with a merry heart?  Is that really such a hard thing on the eyes?

 

Conclusion

 

If you are a current or former SDA who has always abstained from wine because you thought the Bible said you had to know that this is a made up law.  Clearly, to even support such a view one has to add and remove from the Bible to do it (Rev 22:18-19).

 

 

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About ACTheologian

I am a layman who blogs my Biblical studies. Enjoy, please read with an open Bible and do double check with your pastor.
This entry was posted in Leaving Adventism, The Clear Word and tagged . Bookmark the permalink.

14 Responses to Clear Word vs Bible: Drinking Wine

  1. Appiah williams (MR.VEGAS) says:

    are u nt ashame of what u are sayin abt wine hmmmm…..are u Ok with ur words ….becareful of ur fake teaching

    Like

    • ACTheologian says:

      Please clarify your statement with some supporting examples. I thought my post above was pretty straight forward.

      Like

  2. SofaTheologian says:

    So your belief is that on Passover the entire meal was to be served without leavening, without yeast, and yet the wine was okay to have yeast and leavening, the symbolic ‘sin’. It seems pretty obvious to me there was no word for juice in the Bible days. You can’t read Proverbs and walk away with the sense that alcohol is a great thing to partake.

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    • ACTheologian says:

      I posted clear scripture that states drinking is okay. In fact Christians universally drank until about the 19th century with the temperance movement. Yes wine was used up until grape juice was invented in the 19th century.

      You present an anachronism. Of course they drank wine. Look at how the author of the clear word had to twist the text to sneak his beliefs in. That speaks for itself.

      Besides that, nobody said you can’t have yeast in the wine.

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      • SofaTheologian says:

        Actually yes, the entire meal is supposed to be free of leaven. Leaven was symbolic of sin, just a small amount of yeast will double and duplicate and infect the entire substance. Just like sin. Nothing was allowed to have any leavening, or ‘sin’, during Passover and the following 7 days known as the Days of Unleavened Bread, nothing at all including the wine. Look who is twisting things, or maybe this is just the problem with most modern Christianity they don’t take the time to understand the Old Testament so they have no hope of understanding the New Testament.
        And then yes you are shocked that a paraphrase is a representation of the authors beliefs?!? Oh know, are you know going to start attacking every paraphrase or commentary for ‘changing the Bible’ even if they say upfront it’s a paraphrase or commentary? LOL

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      • ACTheologian says:

        Well you’re going to have to prove to me that unleavened bread equals unfermented grape juice that wasn’t invented until the 19th century.

        I’ve told you already why I expose the clear word in this series. It’s to help SDA deprogram their minds that have been brainwashed from birth to twist the Bible.

        I do have posts on other heresies that you could have looked up. They don’t focus on SDA. This series is dedicated to SDA, and it is a common theme on my blog. I was raised SDA.

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      • SofaTheologian says:

        Wasn’t invented? LOL. Take grapes, squash them, drink the juice. Maybe the name wasn’t thought of, but juice wasn’t invented? You gotta be joking.
        You can read about it in Exodus 13:3-16, don’t let me do all you research for you, but focus in on the end of verse 7.
        You can also read Acts 2:13 where people mocked Christians for being full of “new wine” freshly squeezed grapes that haven’t fermented yet would be new. Knowing that isn’t alcoholic makes it a fitting mock.
        In the end you are going to believe what you believe. No one can convince you of anything but yourself. You have to be willing to understand, to be sanctified. I’ll leave you be, the discussion is fruitless.

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      • ACTheologian says:

        Well for staters it only mentions unleavened bread not wine.

        Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, and in the seventh day shall be a feast to the Lord . Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days; and there shall no leavened bread be seen with thee, neither shall there be leaven seen with thee in all thy quarters.
        Exodus 13:6‭-‬7 KJV
        http://bible.com/1/exo.13.6-7.KJV

        Secondly, the technique for keeping grapes unfermented simply wasn’t invented until the 19th century. Google Welches. No joke. It’s not as easy as you presume.

        Lastly, it makes sense for early Christians to be mocked for appearing drunk. Don’t understand your disconnect there.

        Also Paul accused the Corinthians of getting drunk on communion wine. That doesn’t work with grape juice.

        When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord’s supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
        1 Corinthians 11:20‭-‬21 KJV
        http://bible.com/1/1co.11.20-21.KJV

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      • SofaTheologian says:

        nor shall leaven be seen among you in all your quarters.
        Seems to say just leaven, makes no mention of where the leaven would be.
        And early Christians were mocked for being drunk on “new wine”, fresh squeezed grapes is new wine, not old wine. You can’t get drunk on new wine. The mock was, yeah right you are drinking new wine. Fermentation takes time.
        You’ll get it, keep studying Brother. God bless

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      • ACTheologian says:

        Yeah and notice it’s specific to bread. I think you’re eisegeting wine into that text. If they didn’t have wine back then they would have died of dysentery. Besides this Jewish sources indicate that yeast from grapes isn’t considered leaven.

        http://www.chabad.org/holidays/passover/pesach_cdo/aid/508672/jewish/Why-is-it-permitted-to-drink-wine-on-Passover-when-it-is-fermented-with-yeast.htm

        Right, they were mocked for behaving drunk. New wine doesn’t have to mean grape juice that wasn’t invented until the 19th century.

        With respect, most avoid the use of anachronism. It’s considered anti intellectual. Yet you seem to turn to it as a tactic purposefully. Why is that?

        Like

      • SofaTheologian says:

        Lol, you are a funny guy. The invention of juice? Hilarious stuff. Like talking about the invention of rocks, or the invention of clouds. Discovery does not always mean there was invention, and it doesn’t mean they were the first to discover. I can see this discussion is pointless, but the futility of such is a lesson I must learn. Good day Brother, blessings to you and yours.

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      • ACTheologian says:

        I’m sorry history is inconvenient for you here but this is just a fact. If Dr Welch hadn’t invented the process to halt fermentation then there would be no grape juice. It becomes wine almost automatically. You have to intervene to make it juice.

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Bramwell_Welch

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      • SofaTheologian says:

        Hey there you go! You are starting to get it now. Now you see he didn’t invent grape juice, but he invented a process by which new wine will stay unfermented. See if you work through these processes you start to understand better. New wine over time will absolutely ferment automatically, but it still starts as new wine (grape juice). You still need to adjust your wording some because it still started as grape juice if it is freshly squeezed, therefore he didn’t invent it, but he did invent a way to keep it at that stage for longer.

        Keep going you’ll understand more as you go. God Bless Brother!

        Like

      • ACTheologian says:

        I think what you’re not understanding is that you’re importing this concept of new wine being juice. There simply isn’t a category, there is just wine. Some of it might be more fermented than another batch. In fact, if you’re asserting that he only drank wine that was recently pressed then it would still have the yeast you were earlier asserting could not be there. Thus you contradict yourself. I accuse you of special pleading.

        The concept of avoiding fermentation altogether or it being a sin was invented in the 19th century with the temperance movement in america. Nobody before this even cared, and in fact, they preferred alcohol as it reduced disease. Don’t take my word for it, this is readily available information. You can google it. The church has used wine in communion since the beginning just as the apostles did, and just as Jesus did. There is simply so such thing as the anachronistic paradigm you present.

        In my experience, SDA will take any verse that speaks positively of wine and say it is grape juice irregardless of the context. Then any verse that speaks ill of it they will assert its fermented wine, also irregardless of the context. This is special pleading, you don’t get to just pick and choose especially when the framework you start with, the 19th century temperance movement, didn’t even exist when the scriptures were written.

        Also you have simply ignored everything I presented to you that contradicted your beliefs. What of Paul talking about people getting drunk on communion wine? How would that work with grape juice anyways? What of old testament passages telling us to drink wine with a merry heart? How is a sugary drink going to help Timothy’s stomach issues when the water back then was very dirty?

        With respect I don’t think you’re really thinking this through. Ellen White was simply wrong. Jesus and almost everyone else in the Bible did drink wine and there is nothing wrong with it in moderation. And clearly Jack Blanco saw this as well as he felt the need to alter all of those verses on wine to make them more amicable to SDA beliefs. If he really thought those passages worked for him then why would he change them to begin with?

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