The teachings of Ellen White on health reform are all over the map. It is hard to get a clear vein of thought on what it is that she wanted to convey at any particular time. But since I established HERE that she taught all of her words written down on any letter or book were inspired that means everything is on the table. There is a very clear teaching in her writings that eating meat is a sin. Below is a list of her statements to this effect.
“The simple grains, fruits of the trees, vegetables, have all the nutritive properties necessary to make good blood. This a flesh diet cannot do.” – Ellen White, Counsels on Diet and Foods, 322
“The eating of flesh meats has made a poor quality of blood and flesh… Flesh meats will depreciate the blood.” 2T 61, 368
“Flesh meat…is…corrupting to the lifeblood coursing through the veins.” MM 310
“The light has come to me for many years that meat eating is not good for health or morals.”- Ellen White, Counsels on Diet and Foods, Pg 413
“…meat eating deranges the system, beclouds the intellect, and blunts the moral sensibilities.” 2T 64
“You place on your table butter, eggs, and meat, and your children partake of them. They are fed with the very things that will excite their animal passions, and then you come to meeting and ask God to bless and save your children. How high do your prayers go?” —2T, p. 362.
“Those who digress occasionally to gratify the taste in eating a fattened turkey or other flesh meats, pervert their appetites, and are not the ones to judge the benefits of the system of health reform. They are controlled by taste, not by principle.” — – Ellen White, Counsels on Diet and Foods, Pg. 399.
“No man can become a successful workman in spiritual things until he observes strict temperance in his dietetic habits. God cannot let His Holy Spirit rest upon those who, while they know how they should eat for health, persist in a course that will enfeeble mind and body.” – Ellen White, Counsels on Diet and Foods, Pg 55
Notice she says “God cannot let His Holy Spirit rest upon those who…”. Why is it that God cannot do that? I thought he could do anything. If she is saying that he won’t rather than is not capable then the problem is just as bad because she is teaching that you cannot be saved unless you submit to health reform.
God gave the light on health reform, and those that reject it reject God.” — Series B, No. 6, p. 31. EGW address to the General Conference in Oakland, published in the General Conference Bulletin, 1903, pp. 84-88.
“God has written His law upon every nerve and muscle, every fiber and function of the human body. The indulgence of unnatural appetite, whether for tea, coffee, tobacco, or liquor, is intemperance, and is at war with the laws of life and health. By using these forbidden articles a condition of things is created in the system which the Creator never designed. This indulgence in any of the members of the human family is sin. . . . the eating of food that does not make good blood is working against the laws of our physical organism, and is a violation of the law of God. The cause produces the effect. Suffering, disease, and death are the sure penalty of indulgence.” EV 265-266
The above quote is crucial in understanding her teachings on diet. Notice she says that if you are “eating food that does not make good blood” you are in “violation of the law of God“. What else can this be except sin?
Add this to the other quotes above teaching that:
- meat blunts the morals,
- those who do not submit are rejecting God,
- your prayers don’t go high if you eat eggs,
- controlled by taste not by principle
- corrupting the lifeblood
Taken as a whole or in part it is clear that she teaches it is a sin to eat meat. Modern SDA will argue that eating meat doesn’t become a sin until the health message was received and given to the world by Ellen White.
The problem is that they claim her message came from God. God knows everything and would know what is sin and what is not sin. All we need to do on this is to observe Christ. Surely Christ would not have sinned and he would have known with or without Ellen White’s health message whether or not it is lawful to eat meat.
“See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” ; And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and his feet. ; And while they still disbelieved for joy and were marveling, he said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” ; They gave him a piece of broiled fish, ; and he took it and ate before them.” Luke 24:39-43 ESV
Above we see that Jesus ate lamb and a broiled fish. Note that the latter is after the Resurrection, in his Glorified Body. When put together with the teachings of Ellen White we can only assume that she either believed Jesus to be a sinner, or that he wasn’t aware of what sin is.
“There is a boy here who has five barley loaves and two fish, but what are they for so many?” Jesus said, “Have the people sit down.” Now there was much grass in the place. So the men sat down, about five thousand in number. Jesus then took the loaves, and when he had given thanks, he distributed them to those who were seated. So also the fish, as much as they wanted. And when they had eaten their fill, he told his disciples, “Gather up the leftover fragments, that nothing may be lost.” John 6:9-12 ESV
Above we see Jesus fed the five thousand with many pounds of fish. If this were a sin then Jesus would have been causing people to sin. If we put this together with the teachings of Ellen White the only logical conclusion is that Jesus was a mass sinner who encouraged others to do the same, or he was simply ignorant of what is sin.
It doesn’t end there, we see also that Ellen White was guilty of eating meat. She even did so after receiving the health message.
“Mary, if you can get me a good box of herrings, fresh ones, please do so. These last ones that Willie got are bitter and old. If you can buy cans, say, half a dozen cans, of good tomatoes, please do so. We shall need them. If you can get a few cans of good oysters, get them.” —Letter 16, 1882
“Christmas morning we all took breakfast together—James Cornell; Florence and Clara, their two girls; Brother and Sister Moore and their three children; Sister Bahler and Etta, a girl living with them; and Sister Daniells, our cook, Father, and myself. We had a quarter of venison cooked, and stuffing. It was as tender as a chicken. We all enjoyed it very much. There is plenty of venison in market. (Written December 26, 1878, from Denison, Texas, to “Dear Family at Battle Creek–Willie, Mary, Aunt Mary, Edith, Addie and May, and Brother and Sister Sawyer.”)” —Manuscript Releases, Volume Fourteen, p. 318. Letter 23, 1878.
“I do not preach one thing and practice another. I do not present to my hearers rules of life for them to follow while I make an exception in my own case….” —Selected Messages Book 2, p. 302. Letter 12, 1888.
Clearly, Ellen White taught that both herself and Jesus Christ were sinners. I don’t personally have a problem believing that Ellen White was a sinner and I don’t believe that SDA struggle with this either. But to teach that Jesus was a sinner would mean that we would have no atonement, no sinless sacrifice as the propitiation of sins.
The truth is that we were warned this would happen a very long time ago by Paul.
“Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, ; through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, ; who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. ; For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, ; for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.” 1 Tim 4:1-5 ESV
That passage fits Ellen White to a tee. She was a messenger of a very deceitful spirit, be it her own imagination or that of a demon. She taught abstinence from food that God had made clean and created to be received. She is a false prophet and you need not fear her. There are enough laws in the Bible we don’t need more, to do so is blasphemy as one has to put themselves in the place of God to make laws of God.
Armchair Theologian 
Am I missing something? The jump from meat to fish is unclear to me.
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Fish is a category of meat.
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Sorry, Darnley, I responded to your comment in the wrong place. 🙂 Scroll down to see it.
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Jesus also ate lamb the night before He was crucified! This was about 43 days before He went up to the Father!
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Although the Bible doesn’t explicitly mention Jesus consuming red meat or poultry, it’s safe to assume that He would have eaten lamb during Passover–God had commanded the Hebrews to in the Old Testament.
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Isaiah 25:6 Expanded Bible (EXB)
God’s Banquet for His Servants
6 The Lord ·All-Powerful [Almighty; of Heaven’s Armies; T of hosts] will prepare a feast
on this mountain [C Mount Zion; 24:23] for all people.
It will be a feast with all the best food and wine,
the ·finest [tenderest; full of marrow] meat and ·wine [well-aged/filtered wines].
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The writer of this article has been blinded by the devil. ..I can authoritatively say that he or she is luciferan…may God heal you and give you wisdom for you to understand His words.
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I can assure you I am not a luciferian. I am actually an LCMS Lutheran who grew up seventh day Adventist. The conclusions I reach are based on the Bible. If you discern I have mishandled a Biblical text or Ellen White quote let me know.
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Lets put this in the simplest terms so that you can understand…A command is only broken when it is disobeyed, but FIRST it must be given. When none is given , none is broken. Jesus was never commanded by the Father not to eat these things. John the Baptist, on the other hand was commanded a certain diet which he fulfilled. Believe it or not , but E G White was given a command for the PRESENT and FUTURE generation to change diet. This command is not retroactive… no command is. So for you to say that Jesus is a sinner based on E G white is completely false. You are a false witness my friend.
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With respect i simply reject the premise of your argument. The Bible teaches one can sin without the law.
“First let’s look at “Romans 2 where it speaks of those who ‘have sinned without the law,’ verse 12; and verse 14 speaks of ‘the Gentiles which have not the law.’ And Romans 5:13 says that ‘until the law sin was in the world.’ So sin does not depend upon the law.” – samuel fisk
Even without a command law is law and sin is sin friend
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I’m curious to know where, according to you, the writer was off scripturally. The only one off there was EGW. She, indeed, was the one whose writing doesn’t line up with God’s Word. BTW, you said ‘I can authoritatively say …” What authority was that?
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Plus, your false ‘prophet’ was a hypocrite in her use of things like oysters. If eating meat was eqquivocal to sinning, eating UNCLEAN meat was even worse in SDAism. She preached against it but ate it anyway. It wasn’t a sin and she should have not treated it as such.
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loribordessa says:
February 28, 2016 at 5:01 pm
Plus, your false ‘prophet’ was a hypocrite in her use of things like oysters. If eating meat was eqquivocal to sinning, eating UNCLEAN meat was even worse in SDAism. She preached against it but ate it anyway. It wasn’t a sin and she should have not treated it as such.
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So she committed the sin of hypocracy too! In addition to not being aware that Miller and herself were false prophets, violating Jesus’ command in Matt 7.15, resulting in verse 23. This means that she could not have been any sort of sabbath keeper as long as she goes around sinning so enormously! Break one, break them all the book of James says.
I am pretty certain Ellen White will be tormented day and nite for eternity. Along with her stubborn, rebellious followers.
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Odoom charles says:
February 24, 2016 at 8:06 am
The writer of this article has been blinded by the devil. ..I can authoritatively say that he or she is luciferan…may God heal you and give you wisdom for you to understand His words.
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You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass unscriptural judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself — Romans 2
I bet Ellen Whites’ incontinent statement that “satan has taken full possession of the churches”, being totally unscriptural, is just her inadvertantly telling on her own rebellious little movement. A real waterslide to hell all because the could not obey Jesus at Matt 7.15 to beware Miller, the false prophet. You will notice the SDA’s reward for their disobedience in verse 23. Not a shred of forgiveness hinted at.
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Odoom charles it is typical for the SDAs to damn someone for their beliefs. What scriptures do you have to support your claims?
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In the Adventist world, any animal flesh is referred to as meat. I have found that isn’t the case outside of Adventism. Usually people think of red meat when they hear the word meat. I remember when I was an SDA and I would tell people I was vegetarian it would irritate me when they would ask if I ate chicken or fish. I would usually say, “if it had a heart beat, I don’t eat it.”
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I used Biblical quotes of fish because they are so plain. But nobody seriously contests that Jesus ate meat. He was Jewish and at the very least he would have been a part of the various temple feasts etc.
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Me to Nikki. It always puzzled me when I said I was vegetarian and then they asked me if I ate chicken or fish. HUH??!! Lol!! But no longer SDA and no longer vegetarian. My body craves protein. Meat works very well for me.
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There are, in fact some “vegetarians” that don’t eat red meat or poultry, but do eat fish.
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Some things I consider, your quoting a passage form 1878 where she ate meat, then quoted her from 10 years later where she declares that meat shouldn’t be eaten, is it possible that she hadn’t yet received the vision or inspiration yet in 1878?..Something else to consider, everything has to be taken in context to its time, such as people who point out EGW said people shouldn’t buy bicycles, it was relevant to the times she lived, and more of an example of people spending money on a frivolous item they really couldn’t afford…. So how does meat fit in along this line of thought? Meat today definitely isn’t what it was in biblical times, today it has antibiotics and steroids, live stock are fed unnatural foods and grains. I don’t think the actual act of eating meet is sinful, I think it’s the results of eating these meats that defile ones body. anything unhealthy injested into our body that alters it from God’s initial plan of how he designed us, The body is the temple of the Lord…… How does fish fit in with the other meats? They don’t put steroids in fish, but some fish are farm raised now, sitting in chemically treated ponds of their own fecal matter, being fed unnatural man made foods again, Lake fish, ocean fed fish, even these types of fish come with warnings these days of excessive amounts of lead. I’m located near the Mississippi where the state authorities put out public messages not to eat more than one fish a week out the river because of the pollutants in the fish. I don’t think eating meat is a make or break ticket to heaven or hell, but again if the body is the temple of the Lord, these meats are altering our bodies in an unhealthy way that God did not intend. Thus for our own good/health should be avoided.
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I tested Ellen White along these lines.
1) she claimed all her writings, letters books and all, were inspired. So I test them all by that standard. Thus, when she received the health message is irrelevant because to assert otherwise is to say God is lying.
2) she taught that it is a sin to eat meat
3) Jesus ate meat
4) therefore Ellen White taught that Jesus was a sinner.
I reject the various “abrogation” esque motifs SDA place on her. Such theories have more in common with Islam than they do Christianity. All of her words stand or fall on the claim that she attributed to herself.
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Sean McLeighlas says:
March 1, 2016 at 8:53 pm
EGW said people shouldn’t buy bicycles, it was relevant to the times she lived, and more of an example of people spending money on a frivolous item they really couldn’t afford
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Who gets to decide? Ellen? You? The people that bought a bicycle? Got any scripture to back up whatever position you care to assume?
Ellen has no claim on bicycle owners money. It is a massive sin to pay tithes and offerings to her organization anyway (2 John 9-11). The money is much better wasted on a bike than used to help promote the false christ that Miller the subsequent SDA’s have concocted since 1843.
SDA’s real problem is not bicycles, but rebelling to Jesus’ plain command in Matt 7.15 to beware false prophets. They are totally unable to apply this to Ellen White, much like Muslims cannot apply it to Mohammad, or Mormons to Joe Smith, or JW’s to Charlie Russell.. Dear Adventist, let me introduce you to your reward in Matt 7.23. Notice no forgiveness, fudge factor, or leeway even hinted at!
Your rebellion and stubborness in this matter the Lord accounts to you as witchcraft and idolatry. 1 Samuel 15.23
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Am an active adventist BUT I know Ellen G. White was wrong on health reform. The moment she connected meat eating with immoral behaviour she lost it. Meat eating is NOT a moral issue but a healthy one. If it’s a moral issue, it must have been so even in Jesus’ time. The sooner our adventist church comes out of denial that she was a spiritual gambler, the better for the church. FYI the bible and bible alone is able to show us the way to heaven.
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It takes alot of honesty and discernment to come out and say that. In my opinion if SDA ditch the 18th and 24th fundamental beliefs they will be good to go. (EGW & investigative Judgement)
I think if they did remove those other teachings would iron out enough that they would become seventh day Baptists with haystacks.
Thanks for reading and thanks for commenting.
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Interestingly enough, much of the supposed health benefits of vegetarianism are being called into question now.
http://holdthetoast.com/content/ancel_keys
http://www.menshealth.com/health/saturated-fat
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How do you then know she isn’t wrong about absolutely everything else? Maybe she was as right as Miller was right about 1844. Dead wrong and deceived by Miller, a violation of Jesus command in Matt 7.15 with her exact reward found in verse 23, zero forgiveness hinted at. Ditto for all SDA’s who do not obey Jesus by “beware-ing” Ellen White.
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Hi GWASH your an active Adventist but you say you know EGW is wrong on health reform because she connected eating meat as immoral behavior. Reading the whole context of her writings on meat did you know the reason she made for going to a vegetarian diet instead of a meat diet? Second question was does the Bible teach God’s displeasure when His people ate meat at anytime in the Bible? Was the meat unclean or clean meat? It’s interesting that we say EGW lost it when the Bible shows God’s displeasure when they refused to eat his diet and wanted to eat flesh. Does Ellen White not speak in context using the experience of Israel with God’s church who is seeking to enter the promise land? What was the advantage spiritually of not eating meat and eating a vegetable diet in the Bible and in the Spirit of Prohpehcy? It’s interesting that in both cases it’s advantageous to eat a vegetarian diet. Now how about if I showed you some Universities that scienctifcally they claim meat diet does affect behavior? If I can show you science conclusion that science does conclude that meat eating affects behavior would you still say the EGW lost it?
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I get that Ellen White was very much against eating meat, but where in these quotes does she say that it’s a sin? She certainly doesn’t say that explicitly.
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I come to this by connecting her teachings. Specifically she says eating meat creates bad blood, and that eating that which does not create good blood is a violation of the law of God.
I think it’s a fair connection to make as I can draw the Nexus from one thesis to another.
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The SDA’s should not even open thier mouths in support of this blasphemous prophetess unless the know all she wrote:
Let not any of our ministers set an evil example in the eating of flesh meat.” Counsel on Diet and Food, page 399
Did our High Minister, Jesus, set an evil example? In ellen whites deceivedness you can read a backhanded slap from satan to Jesus. Ellen was merely the conduit.
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The ridiculous part of Ellen’s teaching is that she fails to realise the implications of her message. The sin offering (meat) in the Old Covenant had to be eaten by the priests. So she is trying to say that God instituted the sinful (according to her) practice of eating meat to foreshadow the removal of sin?
If she were living in the time of Israel how would she have celebrated the Passover without eating meat?
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realise that this women is a false prophet with no credibility.
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It is ironic that David Bhongs says (in a comment above) that no command is retroactive, in an attempt to show that when Christ ate meat it was not prohibited but that it is prohibited now since Ellen White’s has new light on the matter. To declare as an Adventist that no command is retroactive is to strike at one of the very cornerstones of the Adventist faith, which is the idea that the Sabbath commandment in Exodus 20 was not knew but a restatement of what patriarchs already knew. Adventists claim that because God rested on the seventh day at creation, that it doesn’t matter that no explicit command was given in all of the book of Genesis commanding anyone to keep the Sabbath holy. They point to the idea of their being unclean animals identified with Noah as proof that the Sabbath command dated back to the beginning of time. With this logic, you must assume that if eating meat is a sin since the late 1800’s (and fish are meat since they are simply animals who just happen to live in the sea, just as bird happen to occupy the skies) then it was a sin in Jesus’ day and Paul should not have warned us in 1 Timothy 4:3 that in last days that seducing spirits and demons would forbid people from eating meat.
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Interesting how Ellen could never explain why God used the abominable practice of meat eat (abominable according to Ellen, that is) in the Sanctuary services to point to the covering and eventual removal of sin. The priests ate meat! If Ellen were alive then, her attempts to change the Sanctuary service and make the priests eat cabbage would have provided some comedic entertainment before all Israel congregated to stone her for being a false prophet.
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Adventists are quick to argue their favorite mistranslated proof-text: “Sin is the Transgression of the Law.” Adventists have painted themselves into a corner with this simplistic and ridiculous argument, as I will presently show. Even worse, Adventists agree with the Pharisaic enemies of Jesus that if Jesus broke the Sabbath, then he was a sinner and not God. (John 9:16). You see, that would be “violating God’s Law.”
But God’s law REQUIRED eating the Lamb at Passover. It was mandatory. Under Adventism’s own ridiculous unbiblical and irrational sophistry, NOT-eating meat at Passover would have been a sin. Under Adventism’s own illogical sophistry, Jesus would have sinned by being a vegetarian. This commandment to eat the Passover lamb came straight from the Mouth of God and was “permanent and eternal” on the face of it. Moreover, the Passover was written in stone by the Finger of God, and is the First Commandment (Exodus 20:2):
Exodus 12
1 Now the Lord spoke to Moses……
…..
5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year. You may take it from the sheep or from the goats. 6 Now you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month. Then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it at twilight. 7 And they shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and on the lintel of the houses where they eat it. 8 Then they shall eat the flesh on that night; roasted in fire, with unleavened bread and with bitter herbs they shall eat it. 9 Do not eat it raw, nor boiled at all with water, but roasted in fire—its head with its legs and its entrails. 10 You shall let none of it remain until morning, and what remains of it until morning you shall burn with fire. 11 And thus you shall eat it: with a belt on your waist, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand. So you shall eat it in haste. It is the Lord’s Passover.
….
14 ‘So this day shall be to you a memorial; and you shall keep it as a feast to the Lord throughout your generations. You shall keep it as a feast by an everlasting ordinance.”
…..
Therefore you shall observe this day throughout your generations as an everlasting ordinance.”
….
24 And you shall observe this thing as an ordinance for you and your sons forever.”
Adventist trolls sometimes disingenuously-argue that Jesus didn’t actually EAT the Lamb that he commanded Peter and John to sacrifice:
“Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. So Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and prepare the Passover for us, that we may eat it.” Luke 22:7-8 ESV
But that would have violated the unambiguous and unequivocal commandment in Exodus 12 to EAT the Passover Lamb. Under Adventism’s own ludicrous and unbiblical sophistry, it would have been a sin for Jesus to be a vegetarian.
The utter nonsensical, irrational, and stridently-unbiblical lies of Adventism’s false prophet crashes and burns here. Bigly.
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Adventism is 100% sin. Liars,idolaters and promoters of the false christ of 1844 keep exactly nothing holy, not even their much ballyhoo’d sabbath command. SDA’s manage to deceive each other that they keep sabbath holy, but true Christians understand SDA’s keep exactly nothing holy!
Didn’t Jesus command His sheep not to be deceived. This is the first command that SDA’s are in a hurry to disobey.
If the changed their name to:
S tubborn
D eceived
A postate
They could still keep the SDA letters, but at least be a little more truthful!
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These SDA comments are proof that the SDAs are hoodwinked by EGW. They got their little “pat” answers and cannot see beyond their own noses. Only those who truly desire to see truth will see it. When an SDA purposely takes his/her blinders off…then and only then can they see the error of the SDA’s false prophet. The writer makes it so plain, but those who will not see…won’t.
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Only those who truly desire to see truth will see it
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Correction:
no one can come to Me unless the Father has enabled them.– Jesus, John 6.65
Our will power has nothing to do with it:
John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; ●●●the flesh counts for nothing●●●. The words I have spoken to you–they are full of the Spirit and life.
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I agree EGW was a false prophet. These are excellent points. What I would change is the title. I’m not trying to start an argument. Just some friendly advice. The title to me seems like “click-bait” becuz it implies that White actually stated that Jesus was a sinner – like in a statement. That’s why I looked. That’s dishonest. She never said that. I get your point, don’t get me wrong. But the title is misleading. I don’t think that helps our cause. Just something to ponder… God bless.
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I disagree, she was clear that eating meat is a sin. Clearly Jesus did eat meat. I think it’s a fair interpretation of her words.
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If this statement is dishonest, then even mathematics must be dishonest. All the writer has done is connect the dots and take her teachings to their logical conclusion. Some will not like the implications of that conclusion, but that in no way diminishes its truthfulness. If A equals B and B equals C, it’s fair to logically deduce that A must then equal C. In the same manner, if Ellen said eating meat is sinful and Jesus ate meat, it’s a fair conclusion to draw that Ellen was teaching that Jesus was a sinner. Whether or not she realized the implications and logical deductions of her teachings is another matter, but that is what she ended up implicitly teaching. She doesn’t need to make the statement explicitly… It’s there in her teachings implicitly and is the logical deduction.
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Meat today definitely isn’t what it was in biblical times,
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Got scripture to support your assertions?
Please show how you are, or are not, obeying Jesus at Mark 7.15 :
“Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”
Please show from James that you are a hearer but not a doer of the word, thereby deceiving yourself. Your pretended faith without the works of obeying Jesus is totally dead. Faith without works is dead. That is all you can claim.
Looks like you are not conforming your every thought to the teachings of the scriptural Jesus. You, as an SDA, defile yourself with your Christ-disobeying chatter.Your rebellion gas been noted.
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Ellen G. White was speaking about the current days we are living in and how unhealthy the animals are and how poorly they are treated, therefore teaching abstinence from meat and animal by-products. But who is eating meat kosher??? Even the Jewish and Isrealites teach what kosher is, and really, if we look at the qualifications of kosher it is so, so rare that anything can be deemed kosher these days. Example: Southern California has dozens, possibly hundreds of “kosher” markets and in reality probably only 3-5 are truly kosher.
So ultimately, she never said that our Messiah sinned.
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Ridiculous. First of all she puts meat eating in a sin category. Secondly, even if you believe health issues are sin issues, 19th century meat would have been as healthy or more so than 1st century meat. Most of the meat eaten in the 19th century would have been raised by the person that slaughtered and ate it on a farm, or hunted in the wild. You don’t get more organic than that.
Ellen White spoke in the present tense when she condemned meat eating and told those around her not to eat meat. To say she was only speaking of present times is flat out ridiculous.
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Jasmine M. says:
August 28, 2018 at 7:26 am
Ellen G. White was speaking about the current days we are living In
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Got scriptural proof that some will forbid eating certain things in these current days?
Why don’t you take me to 1 Timothy 4:3 ??
1The Spirit clearly says that in LATTER DAYS some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. …require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
That is reference to those false teachers who have seared consciences, one being the SDA false prophet Ellen White.
Ellen White defiled herself by what came out of her pen and mouth.
18Are you so dull?” Jesus asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them?
19For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
20He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them.
21For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder,
22adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and F.O.L.L.Y.
23All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”
All SDA’s defile themselves by promoting the false prophet, Ellen White, and claiming to keep sabbath holy!
She, Jasmine, and most all SDA’s quickly find themselves disobeying Christ’s command at Matt 7.15 to beware false prophets. Either they are unable to obey Him, won’t obey Him, or flat out don’t care. Here is what they can expect for their eternities:
Then I Jesus will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Get away from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’ Matt 7.23
When you are disobedient to His commands, you are both lawless and certainly not a commandment keeper of any sort. You SDA’s can fool yourselves that you are keeping the 7th day holy, but Jesus calls you lawless. Deceived liars, disobedient to Jesus keep exactly nothing holy.
Plus, all your non-meating abstinence will get you exactly nothing. Perhaps an undernourished existence in hell?
15 To the pure all things are pure; but to SDA’s who are defiled, disobedient, and unbelieving, nothing is pure. Both their mind and conscience are defiled. 16 They claim to know God but their deeds and teachings deny Him. They are despicable, disobedient and worthless (reprobate) for any good deed. Titus 1.15,16
May God actually turn you to Himself and rescue you from an eternity of torment.
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Hi my friend,
I like the structure of your blog and the quality of your arguments and answers.
Regarding EGW, I perceive an endless dispute with no clear results other than some SDA believers living their church.
My simple question is: Is it something good on her teachings? Or everything is bad?
From your experience, what is your opinion?
Regarding myself, it is very difficult to perceive something good either in promoting, either in denying her.
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I think exposing the heretical teachings is helpful to those who are trapped in that bubble. As one who once was I can testify to that.
Is everything she said bad? Well no. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Is there enough good to warrant reading her for any kind of devotional value?
No.
She is a heretic and false teacher. She should be considered as one who is outside of the faith.
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Thank you for your frank reply. If you don’t mind, were you born SDA, or coming later?
Definitely, the mix of truth and error equals error.
Do you think that she was only the visible person of a group that developed a business by using her claims and writings?
I have a close interest on this matter to understand, if possible, if SDA church is the product of a pure fantasy, or if she is a business matter.
Nice regards,
Octavian
Ps. I like your other articles, too. Congratulations!
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I was born and raised seventh day adventist. Went to their private schools too so was in that bubble.
Regarding business or fantasy though, that’s a very good question and I’ll give you an honest answer.
I dont believe her source was God. The most likely explanation was the brain damage she received from her childhood head injury caused her to believe she was recieving visions and such. This would explain why they started to fade away as she aged. Her mind would have continued to heal.
If you read canwright you will see it wasn’t entirely her fault either. She was being manipulated by the men in her life. They would get her worked up when there was a dispute over just about anything by having their argument in front of her and then of course she would have a vision to settle the matter.
Business end of things would explain why she plagiarized so many books though. At one point or another, especially after her husband died, it’s likely that being a prophet was necessary to pay her bills. This was before social security so she wouldn’t have had anything else.
I generally dont hover there too much because SDA dont care about that. They want to know if she was a legit prophet or not. So I focus on the obvious things along those lines that can’t be easily interpreted in creative ways.
Was she a medium of the devil? Maybe. If she wasn’t then he was getting alot of free help let’s put it that way. I dont need her to be channeling satan though for her to be a false prophet so I dont speculate on that too much.
SDA today is certainly a business and a fantasy. I strongly suspect most SDA grow up believing it all and by the time they dont they need the system for their job, retirement, etc. So for those reasons they keep it going. There’s all kinds of ways of staying an SDA in that manner but generally this side of it is gonna start leaning more liberal and the older ones who still believe will be your conservatives (theological not political).
Adventism works out to be a kind of apostasy machine in that regard. That’s how I think of it anyways now. I believe God has ordained such things would exist to glorify himself. Part of the strong delusion he promises to send in the new testament.
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Yes, interesting that being raised and educated in SDA system, you perceived the problems with this ideology. I have a friend that graduated an SDA theological university, and in the end, in spite of being born in an SDA family, he decided to abandon it.
He was very connected with 1888 mesage. By the way, how you perceive the 1888 controversy? It was something meaningful, or just a fake?
How you consider the controversy upon Jesus’s human nature?
I am really interested in an objective view, as possible.
Thank you,
Octavian
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My understanding is the 1888 message was an emphasis on the gospel and salvation by faith. Which is good.
The problem is they give this with one hand and take it with the other. They still teach the investigative judgement and that Ellen White was a prophet in their fundamental beliefs. And she taught that at the close of the IJ you have to live sinlessly without a mediator, and that satan finishes the atonement. Here is a series on that…
So even if you put the actual gospel before that you end up taking it away.
I’m not familiar with their controversy on Jesus nature. I remember what I was taught I just didn’t know it was controversial in Adventism.
What I remember is they took the concept of kinosis all the way to Jesus not being God anymore. Well kinda. Basically he had to do his miracles entirely in faith and that the Father was the one doing everything and still is. In addition to that, EGW taught that Jesus was exalted to Godhood before creation. Certainly not orthodox at all. Here is a post I wrote on that.
https://actheologian.com/2016/07/25/the-lie-within-and-the-lie-without-deity-of-christ/
They also see Jesus, The Father, and the Holy Spirit as separate beings. Kind of like the shack.
Here is a post I wrote on that
https://actheologian.com/2016/06/27/the-lie-within-and-the-lie-without-the-holy-trinity/
Christian’s believe in the two natures of Christ. He is fully man and fully God. I have a post on that here, like so many things in scripture one must embrace both paradoxical teachings fully rather than picking one over the other.
https://actheologian.com/2016/02/14/deity-of-christ/
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I’m noticing I called out their view of the Trinity and didn’t give you an orthodox counter to it. So here’s that. God is one being, three persons, and same substance.
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Did fish in Jesus’ day have mercury in it? Or meats have pesticides, anti-biotics and artificial hormones in them? Could it be that God is returning us to His original plan for us where even the lion shall eat straw?
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In Jesus day you were more likely to get deadly parasites and disease from eating literally anything than you are to get harmed at all today from regulated amounts of pesticides, antibiotics, and hormones. I’m not contesting that it’s better to raise your own meat of course. Just pointing out that your analogy is flawed.
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How ridiculous! Ellen White was provided, from God, a message for us, at the end of time. The fundamental principles she adheres to are Biblical. In the industrial age, not even secular science will claim that eating meat is a healthy choice! Animals in this age are abused, treated with steroids, antibiotics, their feed is often genetically modified, has residual chemicals from herbicides, and general pollution of this age. Meat is a top carcinogen. Dr. McDouggal, a non-SDA in his health lectures has said, how dare the SDAs have this information and seldom live it or share it! Look into the advantages of a balanced vegan diet, and you’ll know! Ellen White never made claim to Jesus having sinned! On the contrary, she insisted the opposite is true! Eating meat in Jesus day had none of the detrimental disease promoting modern day “science” caused improvements (for enhanced meat production, cheap feed, preservative, milk production, supposed disease control) pollution and toxicity! By the way, farm fish are found to have high levels of mercury, the river near me used to have signs warning people not to eat fish from the river more than once a week, that warning has been updated to warn against eating fish from the river more that once a month! Look at our oceans! You’re pathetically misguided!
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Ellen White plainly taught that eating meat was a sin and the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus ate meat. Just put 1 and 1 together friend, it’s not that hard to see. I quoted her extensively.
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