This is the seventh post in a series on the Investigative Judgment, each of these builds consecutively on the prior so if you have not already read my most recent post please click HERE.
At the moment I intend for this to be my final post on the Investigative Judgment. I feel I proved it wrong with the very first post on this anyways, but for the sake of those who might be stuck in the doctrine I chose to continue. To go any further than this might run this risk of giving the reader the false impression that they are in the Jury box over and against God’s Word on this. The Bible is so clear that the Investigative Judgment is false that to hold to it after sound study is to be in open rebellion to the very Word of God.
The biggest problem with the Investigative Judgment isn’t that it is false eschatology. In fact, I would recommend to anyone to be rather forgiving on eschatology in general, I think there is a call for Christian freedom in disagreeing on the particulars of the end times.
Where we are not free is to turn our eschatological views into a false Gospel, Paul gives us a clear warning on such things here:
“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” Gal 1:6-9 KJV
Paul places the tampering of the Gospel in the realm of “anathema” as some versions put it. He even goes so far to say that if another apostle or angel teaches a false gospel that the curse of anathema resides upon them. If the apostles themselves do not have the authority to teach a false gospel then neither does the church, or any denomination thereof. Before laying out the False SDA Gospel that comes out of the Investigative Judgment I want to demonstrate the real one Biblically so that you can see the juxtaposition.
What is the Gospel? What shall we teach so as not to be anathema? Fortunately Paul very succinctly defines this in another one of his letters.
“Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” 1 Cor 15:1-4 KJV
Above see that Paul says that we are saved from our sins and wicked nature by the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. One may ask then, how does one receive this gift upon them? Fortunately Paul also explains this in his letter to the Ephesians.
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” Eph 2:8-10 KJV
I kept verse 10 in my quote above as without it this becomes a passage used to negate good works entirely. They are important, necessary even, but I would qualify that they are necessary for Christians and not for salvation as the placement of Good Works clearly transpires chronologically after Justification in the above passage.
Notice in verse 8 the words “it is the gift of God“. What is the referent of the word “it”? Specifically, what gift am I receiving from God? Faith or Grace? I would argue grammatically that both faith and grace are gifts received from God. So Biblically God gives us the Faith by which we then receive Grace from him unto salvation.
Fortunately Paul also explains a means of Grace, in how Faith is given to us as as this gift from God.
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” Rom 10:17 KJV
For those curious, I recommend reading the preceding text on your own by clicking HERE. You will see there is a preaching factor in this as well. That is a bunny trail in and of itself for another post at another time.
Here is the point though, the Bible teaches the Gospel and how one receives it. It teaches that we are saved by Grace alone through Faith alone. We do not get to take credit for our salvation, or help Jesus out in any way. Even if you have changed since accepting Christ and are not wallowing in the sins of your past any longer, you still need Jesus just as much for your salvation as you did the day before you called upon the name of the Lord. Know that when you are in Christ you are covered in the righteousness of God, not your own righteousness.
“And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith” Php 3:9 KJV
“For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” 2 Cor 5:21 KJV
Adventist doctrine undermines the gospel with their eschatology. The reason this happened is because in the Millerite movement they tried to predict the end of the world and the second coming of Christ down to the date. This is not terribly unlike the Harold Camping movement a few years ago. Just like with Camping, the Millerite movement adjusted their dates a few times, then after 1844 came and went they claimed spiritual fulfillment to hide from their shame of rebelling against God’s Word (Matt 24:26).
The Spiritual fulfillment that the SDA claimed morphed through many forms but eventually rested on the Investigative Judgment doctrine that I have written about in my most recent posts. The tragedy of this is that it resulted in the SDA teaching a false gospel. Even though most Adventists I know would likely agree with the entire post I have presented to this point, their problem is that the Investigative Judgment invariably contradicts the Biblical teaching of the Gospel.
First of all the Investigative Judgment teaches that our sins are not blotted out until the completion of the entire eschatological process. A false teaching of the SDA which I refuted HERE.
“The work of the investigative judgment and the blotting out of sins is to be accomplished before the second advent of the Lord. Since the dead are to be judged out of the things written in the books, it is impossible that the sins of men should be blotted out until after the judgment at which their cases are to be investigated.” Great Controversy 1888 Page 485, Ellen White
Second the Investigative Judgment teaches that once our sins are blotted out, we must stand before a Holy God without a mediator. They teach that this is the close of probation, and that those who do not keep the ten commandments perfectly at this point are not saved.
“Those who are living upon the earth when the intercession of Christ shall cease in the sanctuary above are to stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator. Their robes must be spotless, their characters must be purified from sin by the blood of sprinkling. Through the grace of God and their own diligent effort they must be conquerors in the battle with evil. While the investigative judgment is going forward in heaven, while the sins of penitent believers are being removed from the sanctuary, there is to be a special work of purification, of putting away of sin, among God’s people upon earth.” The Great Controversy, Pg. 425 Ellen White
Above Ellen is teaching that a combination of your efforts and the Grace of God must bring you to a state of absolute perfection during a probationary period on planet earth. So to that I would say:
How is this working out for you?
Are you perfect yet? (Matt 5:48)(1 John 1:8)
Well you better be if you expect to make it in the end times as she says that your efforts are required!
What Ellen White teaches is a wicked false Gospel from the pit of Hell. The Bible teaches that we are saved by Grace alone through Faith alone, even in the end times. Your best piety will not save you, only Jesus will save you.
Jesus didn’t just die for your worst deeds, he died for your best good works too. Even at your very best you either failed to Love God with all your heart or were puffed up with pride in your ability to do something right. The Sabbath will not even extra save you in the end times. If that is your extra assurance for the last days like it was for me you are clinging to an idol.
Repent and trust in Christ and Christ alone, your true Sabbath rest.
For the rest of my studies on Leaving Adventism please click HERE.
For further reading on the Investigative Judgment I recommend the following works:
- Investigating the Investigative Judgment, by Larry Pahl, an Andrews University Theologian
- Cultic Doctrine of Seventh-Day Adventism, By Dale Ratzlaff
- Truth or Fables on the Investigative Judgment
*UPDATE*
Comments on this post are now officially closed. I believe every possible dissent has been addressed in those below. If you have read all of them and believe you have more to contribute please feel free to send me an email ACTheologian@outlook.com.
Armchair Theologian 
is Sabbath not part of God commandments if yes yyy don’t u obey and please read ur Bible well
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To answer your question NO. The ten commandments are obsolete as part of the old covenant. See Heb 8:13 and Heb 9:4. Though 9 out of 10 commandments are re-issued the fourth is not. For more see my posted titled “The Law of Christ”
I. Acts 14:15 and I Corinthians 8:5, 6http://bible.com/59/act.14.13-15.esv http://bible.com/59/1co.8.5-6.esv
II. I Corinthians 10:7, 14 & I John 5:21http://bible.com/59/1co.10.7,14.esv http://bible.com/59/1jn.5.21.esv
III. Colossians 3:8http://bible.com/59/col.3.8.esv
IV. None
V. Ephesians 6:12; Colossians 3:20http://bible.com/59/eph.6.12.esv http://bible.com/59/col.3.20.esv
VI. Romans 13:9 ; I Peter 4:15http://bible.com/59/rom.13.9.esv http://bible.com/59/1pe.4.15-16.esv
VII. Romans 7:2 ; I Corinthians 6:9http://bible.com/59/rom.7.2.esv http://bible.com/59/1co.6.9.esv
VIII. Romans 13:9 ; Ephesians 4:28http://bible.com/59/rom.13.9.esv http://bible.com/59/eph.4.28.esv
IX. Ephesians 4:25 ; Colossians 3:9http://bible.com/59/eph.4.25.esv http://bible.com/59/col.3.9.esv
X. Romans 13:9 ; Hebrews 13:5http://bible.com/59/rom.13.9.esv http://bible.com/59/heb.13.5.esv
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my brother you are totally lost and you don’t even know what you are talking about.you are just contradicting yourself .who told you the ten commandment is past. please go back and read the bible well and stop interpreting the bible in your own sense.Even Jesus Christ the son of Yahweh observed the Sabbath how much more you a mere clay.
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To answer your question, the Bible told me these things. I recommend you take a look at my other posts. Since your question is law oriented perhaps you should start with the one I’m linking below. I’d like to point out though, that you’re first response was to say I’m lost because of what the Bible says about the law. And it is not the law that saves me it is Jesus. This was the main thrust of my blog post and I think you missed it.
http://armchairtheologian.info/2014/11/14/the-law-of-christ/
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saying that sabbath is no more is s lie, Jesus observed it
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Your comment reveals a few false presuppositions. First of all, Jesus was also circumcised on the 8th day. He also observed the passover. The doctrine that I recommend that you study is that of the New Covenant. It is a big reason as to why I left SDA. Take a look HERE and tell me what you think.
http://armchairtheologian.info/leaving-adventism/the-new-covenant/
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Read John 9:16 and Matt 12:1 and below n see jesus never observed
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“Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.” But others said, “How can a man who is a sinner do such signs?” And there was a division among them.” John 9:16 ESV
“At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry, and they began to pluck heads of grain and to eat.” Matt 12:1 ESV
You can make a strong argument that Jesus didn’t keep the Sabbath day in some places after this point (Luke 4:1). That is because he is saying that the law and prophets were fulfilled in their hearing. I think the best argument is that the Old Covenant began to fade when Jesus said that and was completely gone some time between the writing of 2 Cor and Hebrews. So it’t not to say Jesus sinned, it is just to say that the old covenant was already in the process of fading out during his time on earth, and breaking the Sabbath day wasn’t a sin anymore.
We have every reason to believe that Christ kept the Sabbath and the rest of the Torah before his ministry began.
Take a look at my sabbath post when you get a chance and tell me what you think. You can find it HERE.
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Hey.. I don’t think you are right. Yes Jesus prayed on Sabbath as a tradition of the Jewish people (he being a Jew) But Jesus was never a Sabbatherian…. I can help you to understand this through volumes of scriptures. (fire back)
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hav u forgotten abt Psalms 89:34 dat says dat i will not what hav spoken read yr Bible well n pray for understanding before is too late
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I’m going to give you the same advice. God did not violate the covenant, Israel did. But don’t lose hope for he promised a new covenant.
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord , when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord .
Jeremiah 31:31-32 ESV
http://bible.com/59/jer.31.31-32.ESV
Which Jesus instituted here
And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.
Luke 22:20 ESV
http://bible.com/59/luk.22.20.ESV
And which makes the old obsolete
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13 ESV
http://bible.com/59/heb.8.13.ESV
We know that the old covenant includes things like the Sabbath because a few verses later the ten commandments are cited as such.
Now even the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly place of holiness. having the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s staff that budded, and the tablets of the covenant.
Hebrews 9:1, 4 ESV
http://bible.com/59/heb.9.1-4.ESV
Also there are other verses that specifically abbrogate the Sabbath day.
Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
Colossians 2:16-17 ESV
http://bible.com/59/col.2.16-17.ESV
One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
Romans 14:5 ESV
http://bible.com/59/rom.14.5.ESV
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Which day do you think is the Sabbath? Then, which day is the first day of the week? What is the different between grace and faith and prove by means of verses the meaning of grace according to the bible? Thanks
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I answer your Sabbath questions in my blog. I recommend you just start out at the first one. You can find it all here.
http://armchairtheologian.info/leaving-adventism/
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Well if you say the commandment is obsolete ,then if I come to steal you or take away your wife from you would I be taken to court or not?
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The ten commandments from the old covenant are obsolete. The Bible says so end of story. We have a new covenant now (Luke 22:20) that is said to make the old obsolete (Heb 8:13). Paul taught that we are not under the torah, which contained the ten commandments, but instead we have the Law of Christ.
To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
1 Corinthians 9:20-21 ESV
http://bible.com/59/1co.9.20-21.ESV
The law of Christ simply doesn’t teach Sabbath keeping. It does teach that murder and adultery is wrong. Perhaps you may wish to read my post on this here:
http://armchairtheologian.info/2014/11/14/the-law-of-christ/
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God will punish you for saying the commandments is obsolete read James2:10-26
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The Bible says the Ten Commandments are obsolete. Not me. Don’t be mad at me I didn’t write the Bible.
Jeremiah spoke of a new covenant coming here:
http://bible.com/59/jer.31.31-32.ESV “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord , when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord .
We see that new covenant instituted by Jesus here in ~33 AD:
http://bible.com/59/luk.22.20.ESV And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.
And then the disposition of old verses new here:
http://bible.com/59/heb.8.13.ESV In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Then we see that Heb 9:1 specifically says that’s its talking of the old covenant
http://bible.com/59/heb.9.1.ESV Now even the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly place of holiness.
and then 9:4 cites the ten commandments as being part of said covenant that 8:13 abrogated.
http://bible.com/59/heb.9.4.ESV having the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s staff that budded, and the tablets of the covenant.
There is no escaping this. By calling the new covenant “new” the old which contains the ten commandments is made obsolete.
What you are seeing in James is what Paul calls the “Law of Christ” and what Jesus calls “my commandments”.
These are not the ten commandments. We know because Jesus calls them new and Paul says they are not the Torah.
To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
1 Corinthians 9:20-21 ESV
http://bible.com/59/1co.9.20-21.ESV
And in this law we don’t see the Sabbath day.
I. Acts 14:15 and I Corinthians 8:5, 6http://bible.com/59/act.14.13-15.esv http://bible.com/59/1co.8.5-6.esv
II. I Corinthians 10:7, 14 & I John 5:21http://bible.com/59/1co.10.7,14.esv http://bible.com/59/1jn.5.21.esv
III. Colossians 3:8http://bible.com/59/col.3.8.esv
IV. None
V. Ephesians 6:12; Colossians 3:20http://bible.com/59/eph.6.12.esv http://bible.com/59/col.3.20.esv
VI. Romans 13:9 ; I Peter 4:15http://bible.com/59/rom.13.9.esv http://bible.com/59/1pe.4.15-16.esv
VII. Romans 7:2 ; I Corinthians 6:9http://bible.com/59/rom.7.2.esv http://bible.com/59/1co.6.9.esv
VIII. Romans 13:9 ; Ephesians 4:28http://bible.com/59/rom.13.9.esv http://bible.com/59/eph.4.28.esv
IX. Ephesians 4:25 ; Colossians 3:9http://bible.com/59/eph.4.25.esv http://bible.com/59/col.3.9.esv
X. Romans 13:9 ; Hebrews 13:5http://bible.com/59/rom.13.9.esv http://bible.com/59/heb.13.5.esv
I hope this helps God bless
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KJV Matthew 5
Jesus Came to Fulfill the Law
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
You only read the Bible in part not it all, God never changes and from the Commandment He wrote with His own finger, it shall come to be as it was… And whoever wrote this article about investigative judgement being false, please then explain to us what Rev 14:7, the message of the Sanctuary in Daniel 8:14
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I have actually answered all of your questions in prior blog posts so I will direct you there, thanks for reading and commenting.
HERE is a post on Matt 5
Here are my posts on the Investigative Judgment
I have actually analyzed all applicable scripture on these issues, leaving SDA was scary for me and I wouldnt do it without a comprehensive study. You can find all my notes here.
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Thanks for sharing the light. So, when is the day of worship?
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You’re free to worship any day. I would ask the pastor what day they have services. If your coming at this from an SDA framework I recommend you read my other blog posts.
http://armchairtheologian.info/leaving-adventism/
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Your reply to osei gyasi just doesnt make sense. Your quotes didnt say ANYTHING about the 10 Commandments being done away with. There were many covenants made between God and Israel, that were done away with, but never the 10 commandments.
.
.
So, for the sake of arguments, if and when the 10 commandments are no longer binding, is it alright to do what the 10 commandments says not to do?
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I thought I was pretty clear. Maybe you should read it again. But I’ll explain it another way.
There are many verses in the Bible tying the ten commandments to the old covenant. Here are a few.
Deuteronomy 4:14 NKJV
So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone…
I Kings 8:9, 21 NKJV
Nothing was in the ark except the two tablets of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, when the Lord made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt. And there I have made a place for the ark, in which is the covenant of the Lord which He made with our fathers, when He brought them out of the land of Egypt.”
Then when we get to Hebrews 8 we see this:
Hebrews 8:7, 13 NKJV
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. In that He says, “A new covenant ,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Lest their be any confusion Hebrews continues and names the ten commandments as part of the old covenant that he just said was obsolete.
Hebrews 9:1, 4 NKJV
Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and the earthly sanctuary. which had the golden censer and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant;
Also see 2 Cor 3
Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory. not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.
2 Corinthians 3:5-11, 13-14 ESV
http://bible.com/59/2co.3.5-14.ESV
To summarize, you still have the veil bro! It’s called the ministry of death for a reason.
I’m sure you have law questions. Take a look at my post on the law and it should help.
http://armchairtheologian.info/2014/11/14/the-law-of-christ/
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If u say THE COMMANDMENTS are old convenant,what did JESUS say about that??He said he isnt in to destroy them. And why is the old testament(convenant) still part of THE HOLY BOOK not only the new testament. I never heard or learnt SDA doesnt preach or taech about grace n say u will be saved by the Sabbath. It is practiced n thought. I think u should read or learn more about the church before righting. And please my question,why is the old testament(convenant) part of the HOLY BOOK since yu say its an old law???
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The old covenant texts provide history and context. But no longer law. The Bible says its Obsolete (Heb 8:13).
Please notice that I fairly quoted SDA teachers who say we are saved by the Sabbath. I was also taught that when I was SDA. So I think it’s disingenuous to assert otherwise. I know SDA say Sunday is the mark of the beast etc.
I don’t say the ten commandments are the old covenant, the Bible does.
I don’t say the old covenant is obsolete, the Bible does.
Don’t be mad at me I didn’t write the Bible. Jesus saves us not the Sabbath. The Sabbath doesn’t even help Jesus extra save you. He does it all!
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all i can say to u my friend is that continued to praise God and have faith on chirst. And the truth is youre correct also, but as for keeping the sabbath is part christian living because you love God.
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how do you relate your point with Jesus saying that ” He came to fulfill the Law and not to abolish it” thank you
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Very good question! Thanks for asking! I answer that here in my post on Matt 5. This was a big deal for me as an SDA.
http://armchairtheologian.info/2014/11/08/matthew-chaper-5/
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When The Bible Says In The Book Of Revalation 11:19 That God’s Temple In Heaven Was Opened And The Ark Of The Covenant Was Seen.And U Know The Ark Was Used To Keep The Ten Commandments.Which Will Be Used To Judge The People.Do U Think The Sabbath Law Is Omitted From The Other Laws Which Are Kept In The Ark Of The Covenant In The Temple Of God In Heaven?
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Good question! Your error is you are assuming things that are not in the text. Notice it never says that the temple is a replica of the one on Earth. And it never says the ten commandments are in the ark. You’re reading all that in. It was Ellen White that said those things.
Here is another challenge for you. Show me where it plainly states that the Sabbath is the last test of the age? Where is the word even found in revelation?
I think you would benefit from reading my other studies. Here is the link.
http://armchairtheologian.info/leaving-adventism
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The ten commandments are in the ark. Read your torah dear
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That is correct. And they are also obsolete:
“In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.” Heb 8:13
“Now even the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly place of holiness. For a tent was prepared, the first section, in which were the lampstand and the table and the bread of the Presence. It is called the Holy Place. Behind the second curtain was a second section called the Most Holy Place, having the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s staff that budded, and the tablets of the covenant.” Heb 9:1-4
Read your Bible hun 🙂
Also I would recommend you take a look at my studies on the New Covenant.
http://armchairtheologian.info/leaving-adventism/the-new-covenant/
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i think guys are getting irked for nothing. jesus summarises the torah into love for God and for mankind. he who loves God will honor him all the times regardless of the day! and he who loves his fellow wont kill him! this the new covenant.
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Thanks for reading and commenting. I think you’re observation is very insightful. If you would like a nuanced breakdown of the law I recommend the post I put together below. It is titled the Law of Christ and is about the one that Paul spoke of in 1 Cor 9:20-21
You can find the post I speak of HERE.
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It’s suprising that the commandment that was given at creation, long before the convenant, the only one that starts with ‘remember’ has rather been forgotten. Please remember that the 4th commandment existed before the decalogue was given to Moses. We are saved by grace through faith and faith without works is void. Get better understanding of faith and works.
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I am sorry but that just isn’t true. The sabbath is not given to man or even mentioned by name in the book of Genesis. We don’t see it at all, and there are many places where it would have been appropriate to mention the sabbath but Moses did not. For example, why didn’t Joseph have a problem with the ten day work week in Egypt? One would think this would have come up but it didn’t.
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This is where I Actually have a big problem with Adventist (reading things that does not exists). Yes, rest is mentioned in Genesis but was NOT GIVEN to men (God rested) the only time Sabbath law was given to mankind was during the trip to promised land.
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But when God gave this as a commandment he clearly mentioned that you (men) should rest on the seventh day because he (God) had rested on the seventh day himself after 6 days of creation. So you can’t say there was no Sabbath keeping until it was given to Moses yet God himself kept that Sabbath and he even says in Paradise from one Sabbath to another his people will come to worship him.
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Not true. Just because that’s the reason doesn’t mean the command for man to keep it started at creation. That’s simply the reason.
If I told my kid he had to go to college because I did that doesn’t mean he’s already been going to college since he was a baby.
It’s kinda silly that you would even read it in such a manner. Do you approach everything with that kind of thinking?
The reason God resting is relevant is because it’s type and shadow of our rest in Christ. It’s the same purpose as the command for the Jews to rest on the Sabbath. Type and shadow of our rest in Christ.
Now Jesus says come to me and I will give you rest. He is our rest now. Our rest from sin and death. The day was only a shadow. The substance is Christ.
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thanks for your response which i find useful however you need to understand that nothing is sin until God says so in his commandment. E.g incest was not a sin until the Lord said so. man was not bound by the law of Sabbath until it was given to him in the wilderness.
I am not in denial of the existence of Sabbath in Genesis but it was only for God and him alone. Generation of Adam, Noah, Abraham, to Jacob Never new what breaking Sabbath meant.
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Thank you very much for your insight. The teaching is comprehensive and very educative. To the SDA converts I ask these questions: Are laws observed or fulfilled? Can we have laws without punishment? So if they claim to be observing the laws which also prescribed it’s punishment, why are they not punishing those who flout the laws (ten commandments)? Because the same God who made the ten commandments also commanded the punishment for disobedience. If they believe that we are saved by grace and faith, why do they say that those who don’t observe the laws will go to hell?
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Hey, thanks for reading! And thanks for your insight and commentary.
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ask them how many pharisees sadducees and scribes received holy spirit in the upper room they can name them
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I want to know more about the new covenant and abolishment of the Sabbath cos some people are confusing me
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You can find all my studies in the link below. Alternatively if you go to my “about” page and email me I can send you material you can print and read, along with other websites with good information.
I recommend you start with “the new covenant”
http://armchairtheologian.info/leaving-adventism
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Haaaahaaa its nt news that u left SDA after all Satan left heaven
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I ask you to take a closer look at my studies. My reasons were based on scripture.
http://armchairtheologian.info/leaving-adventism
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I think the one who inspired the writings in the bible is the only person fit to call sda’s false. Why argue about this?
If you all had prayed enough and asked God to open your eyes, you would have seen plain truth right in front of you.
Anyways, the day of worship was never a problem until one roman empire changed it.
I’m pretty sure you read that.
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The one who has inspired scripture has already taught that which contradicts the false SDA gospel:
“All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness” 2 Tim 3:16
That means I can discern from scripture what is true and what is not. I don’t need an extra biblical prophet like SDA do.
Also you should read my studies on changing the Sabbath. It wasn’t changed by man, it was made obsolete. You can find my work here
http://armchairtheologian.info/2014/11/11/changing-the-sabbath/
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hey guy….the bible is so complicated….my prayer is that God grant me understanding and wisdom as i read…
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i agree with some of what u say and like u said, u r a lay man, i definitely know much less than you however the issue i cant seem to agree with is that God had a covenant and some how it didn’t turn out well so he changed it, that does sound at all fair to the people in the old covenant. so what will happen if like you’ve pointed out this one also fails, will he just force into heaven? my understanding is one there was an old covenant which ended and the difference i find in Jer 31:33 the law is not obsolete, its in MY HEART. God writes it on the inward part of my heart and its not a burden like u may think, its joy when i keep the sabbath, its joy when i do not commit adultery its not a box heavy on my forehead but i agree with you on one thing God DOES not me! dear fellow readers lets not attack each other lets not get angry. we may be wrong and thats fine coz thats why Jesus DIED and Rose that we may be wrong no more
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I am going to address each of your points separately.
1) I am not the one who divided the covenants, abrogated some, and instituted others. This is a fact of scripture. Some covenants are unconditional and some are conditional, this is how we know that there are many covenants. Read through Leviticus 26 and you will see there were blessings for keeping the mosaic covenant and curses for not keeping it. The Noah covenant for example, has no conditions at all. We never have to worry about a flood covering the earth. The new covenant technically has conditions, but they are fulfilled by Christ. The blessings and curses are received in antitype fulfillment, that is we either go to heaven or to hell. So the stakes are much higher and I recommend you trust in Christ. But to prove my point one only needs to compare Luke 22:20 with Heb 8:13. And if you don’t accept the logical conclusion from that then let us agree, with respect, that you reject scripture.
2) Jer 31 also says that the New Covenant will not be like the old. How are you understanding “not like” to be “same as”? You assume that the law spoken of here is the Ten Commandments. But the text doesn’t say that. Since Paul says we have the law of Christ (1 Cor 9:20-22) would it not be fair to say that this is the law prophecied in Jer 31? Notice he juxtaposes the Law of Christ against the Law of the Jews. Something to think about, this clarifies other passages that say the ten commandments are passing away (2 Cor 3:7) or obsolete (Heb 8:13 – 9:4).
Why is this a problem? See I don’t care if you disagree with me on what the law is. If you want to rebel against the Bible and believe that we are under part of the torah let us disagree on that in peace. But the problem is that SDA go one step further and say that you need to keep this law perfectly without a mediator to be saved. And that is a false gospel, see (Gal 1:8).
So if you disagree with me on how to define the law that is fine, what I urge you to reconsider though is trusting in yourself to fulfill the law. Instead trust in Christ, he has fulfilled the law for you. The Sabbath will not save you, it won’t seal you, it won’t even extra save you in the end times. Trust in Jesus and Jesus only. God Bless.
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” Even if you have changed since accepting Christ and are not wallowing in the sins of your past any longer, you still need Jesus just as much for your salvation as you did the day before you called upon the name of the Lord.” Armchair
From what you did explain above, now my question…
Why does one need to change after accepting Christ and from what should they change?
Is the grace not sufficient to save a person whilst wallowing in sin?
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This is not a question I address in the above post. Instead I have called out those who teach salvation by the perfect keeping of the law. Your question is related to the law in what I would call a third use sense. You can find more on that in the link below.
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armstrong, you need to see the light. am an SDA and no where in the doctrine is written that sabbath will save us. And more so no where we are taught that we will stand on our own before judgement. Jesus is our mediator. May God have mercy and show you the light.
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That is very interesting, I plainly quoted above where Ellen White said that the sabbath does save you, and that she says you stand before God without a mediator? Are you saying she is a false prophet? If so then I think we agree, and I am very happy that you trust in Jesus and not in the Sabbath day for salvation.
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you are only a false prophet, whose using the bible falsely, God never changes, according to the bible. Even the new testament does not nulify God’s commandments matthew 5 :17-22. that’s where you lie.
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Just to point out your inconsistency, you argue that God does not change therefore the law does not change. But you don’t sacrifice goats or observe any other of the ceremonial laws. But I thought you said God doesn’t change? Of course God doesn’t change but he can and does change covenants and the law of the torah is associated and defined as part of the old covenant. I’m just pointing out you haven’t thought this line of reasoning through that is all.
I recommend you take a look at my post on SDA Prooftexts Addressed
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you are the real agent of the devil…
..my bible tells me that on the seventh day God rested from all the work and He made that day holly…and He sanctified it also… where does the bible record that any day is a day of worship?
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Well I am sorry that you feel that way. I only ask that you read my material and discern for yourself. My bible says the same things! I think you are quoting Genesis. SDA taught me that God gave the sabbath to adam and that he spend sabbath afternoons walking with him and even in the garden. I was surprised to find that none of that is in the Bible. You can read my study on the sabbath HERE.
But even if you do believe in the Sabbath day we honestly shouldn’t have a quarrel. My issue is that SDA teach you have to keep the sabbath to be saved in the end times, and that is a false gospel.
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Have you ever been to a SDA church? You are giving false information. 99.99999% of you information on SDA contain lies.
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That’s strange, I quoted Ellen white to substantiate my claims. Are you saying she is a false prophet? If so I think we agree.
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@ Armchair
I think your points are clear and realistic. I was Seventh Day Adventist too I was thought the teaching of Ellen White(which many of them are not consistent to the scripture) and the fundamental teaching of the seventh day Adventist. one thing that they can never agree with is the issue of Sabbath however much you quote the scripture ( they would rather disagree with the scripture if they can’t twist it) .
If seventh day Sabbath is that important for our salvation then a sound minded person should wonder why Jesus never told his disciples to keep the Sabbath, why he never kept the Sabbath (I know someone is facing temptation of quoting Lke 4:16), why apostles never kept the Sabbath or even thought to their faithful ones to keep it (instead they taught the opposite). Seventh Sabbatic Law is not a Christian law. We are in a rest (call it Sabbath) when we get saved by grace in Jesus Christ Heb 4:10. And the scripture is clear we are not save by the law but by grace.
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Thanks for reading and thanks for your insightful comments, it’s clear to me that you have been reading your Bible and critically thinking over its teachings.
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The law will not save you nor your works or efforts, Christ will. That is the good news, this is Christianity. The law is too perfect, no man can keep it, that’s why God had to send his only son to save us.
One thing is for is for sure is the law does not say anything about Love, the greatest commandment, until Jesus came.
I think I know what I’d rather do: Love rather than trying to keep the law.
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Hey ? no matter what will happen or has happened Gods commandments remain the same he is not a human being read your Bible again.
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Don’t think you thought this through. I’m sure you recognize some laws were ceremonial? Nailed to the cross? Test that against your argument and let me know when you see the inconsistency.
I have a post on the law you can read here.
http://armchairtheologian.info/2014/11/14/the-la
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My beloved brother Armchair….I agree with you that we are not saved by the Sabbath…..but the issue here is this …We need to know how god saved a sinner….How did he do it?…. .The problem is because we have no knowledge of this process….Guys study and read the bible….One needs to know what is the purpose of the law?…You take the law away you are taking the bible away…Its the only thing that is telling you that you need Christ…If there is no Law than there is no Need of Christ…
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With respect I think you misrepresent me friend. I’m not antinomian. Even in this post I’m only pointing out a false gospel.
You’re touching on ordo salutis and the uses of the law. Two things that are not terribly important when reaching out to SDA. But if you’re ready for that hit the tab at the top of the page called “Armchair Lounge”. Also you may want to read my new covenant posts where I define the law.
As you can see from the post you read SDA need the Gospel and it is enough for them to know it comes by faith in the hearing of the word.
When they are ready for more they can seek it in his Word and find it.
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clear.
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Thanks A Lot For These Teachings And Defending The Truth Amidst People Who Blaspheme Against God.
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Really love the way you replied the questions and arguments without strife and with biblical references amidst some foul oppositions and comments. Armchair.
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I will like to ask all who believe salvation comes our is attained after good works or for observing sabbath. Did we as Christians receive salvation before or after the death burial and resurrection of Jesus? Jesus I know observed the sabbath and any other Jewish ceremony because that was the law. But after he died and the veil that covered the ark of which man was not to see, but saw the any law be it ceremonial or other were fulfilled in him . That is why he said I came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it. Now the Jews in time past had to perform some rites before mentioning the name of God and also wear cloth in a certain way to get to please God. How many people observing the sabbath can tell me the can do all the law says and also work for the salvation our Lord Jesus gave to us freely? I hv alot of questions but someone answer this one
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wow am veri convince on ur article @ arm. realy gud keep it up. buy sme peoples actions it clearly shows they dont believ christ. ther nofin like sabath again. Jesus is the lord of the sabath.
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How do you understand “Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath “? Now, Jesus is Lord of me. In other words Jesus is my Lord. Meaning? I am His. So the Sabbath is His.
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Jesus said that before the new covenant was instituted. So your point is moot. I’m really glad you asked that question the way you did. Read your question again. Look how much the sda have taught you to read into that verse friend. Something to think about.
I understand that phrase as him being boss of it. Which means he can do what he likes, to include fulfilling it. I recommend my post on the Sabbath. That might help.
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good stuff especially the end times(eschatology)well versed and researched.send me in my email
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Why do you decide to put dust into the eyes of the people? You quote Jer 31:31-32 leaving out v33 which talks of the covenant God will make with His people after the first. He says and i quote “‘This is the covenant that I will make with the people of Israel after that time,’ declares the LORD. ‘I will PUT MY LAW IN THEIR MINDS and WRITE IT ON THEIR HEARTS. I will be their God, and they will be my people.” V34 makes IT more beautiful
1st covenant = the law was written on tables of stone and kept in the ark
2nd covenant = law on our hearts and minds.
Please, please be careful for this is a matter of life and death (eternally)
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I do actually cover those verses just not in this post. Notice Jeremiah doesn’t say ten commandments he just says law. Also Hebrews 8&9 reference this passage and the ten commandments are specifically rendered obsolete in a cross reference of heb 8:13 with 9:4.
I have a post that covers this here:
https://actheologian.com/2016/04/25/old-vs-new-c
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I like it…….great……please I want to read more so send me more into my email account….. please…
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read for your self what Jesus taught on the commandments where the Sabbath command is part in math 5:18
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It doesn’t say Sabbath at all. I address Matt 5 here:
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Poster… I was a very strong, striff necked fan of the SDA CHURCH… I knew a lot… I tell u, ure doing a GOOD WORK… I want to know u… I will tellm u why I left so u will put it among ur series too… Tanks…
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Can’t wait to hear it friend! You can reach me at ACTheologian@Outlook.com
And if you contact my Facebook page I can get you connected with a support group online.
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that x ur understanding…. and as for me I have different understanding…. don’t deceive people or else u will be punish
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Friend, I’m only presenting what the scriptures plainly teach. I’m baffled by your comment though. You seem to downgrade the notion of truth to being subject to personal understanding but then claim that I’m going to be punished.
That’s very strange. By you’re own confession there is no objective truth thus you render your threat moot altogether.
Maybe you should think these things through.
I believe the bible teaches what is true. And that is what I have presented in this blog post.
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The 10 commandments are obsolete?
Really.
Read Hebrews 9. See where the 10 commandments are.
In a Covenant Box, with God seated on top.
Heb 9:23.
Whatever is there (the tent Moses built under God’s direction) is a replica of what is in Heaven.
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I’m going to have to ask you to stick to one or two points at a time. The comments are not an extended blog. This is why I trimmed your sermon down a bit.
With respect you’re just wrong above. Nowhere in Hebrews does it say that the sanctuary on Earth was a replica of the one in heaven. It’s never stated. Anywhere.
This is an Ellen White teaching. With respect I simply reject it.
Thus I categorically reject any and all conclusions you base on that.
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Did you read Hebrews 9?
If you would be so kind to post the whole chapter so all can see.
Seeing as you decide what comments come and what don’t.
Why trim some?
I am sure you read all I typed.
May God’s grace work on your heart and give you understanding.
I do not wish to convert you to adventism for Christ isn’t an adventist.
I do not preach adventism either as you saw.
I made scriptural references for every point.
1Thess 5:21.
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Yes I’ve read Hebrews 9. I was told all my life that it explained the investigative judgement and taught that the temple on Earth was a replica of the one in heaven.
Lo and behold when I read it, everything in the chapter happens immediately at the Ascension with 1844 never referenced. And it never says replica anywhere. With respect, you’re assuming that. Post the verse that says replica. It’s not there.
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Matthew 7.
Matthew 5.
Only God can Judge because He is Perfect.
In the chapter, Jesus makes reference to the “eye for an eye” text.
Before you can judge (repay one for evil) you need to be perfect.
Remember the adulteress in John 8?
Again, the Law is not obsolete, but since our human nature continually acts in violation to it, we can’t live by it and therefore need grace.
Please read your bible well.
And pray.
Don’t attack any church’s beliefs.
Seek for truth.
It’ll be a blessing that we all spend eternity with Christ.
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First of all your argument is self defeating. To judge me for judging wouldn’t you yourself need to be at least at your definition of perfection to do so?
I’m not making an antinomian argument so I don’t know what you’re refuting. We are perfect in Christ (Phil 3:9) by faith. So what’s your point?
With SDA I’m exposing a false gospel. Paul calls that anathema (gal 1:8). This isn’t me judging SDA it’s God’s word judging them. It’s by his authority in his written word that I rebuke them.
I understand if leaving might be painful for you. Maybe you have family in the system. Maybe your retirement is with them. I don’t know. Please don’t think I’m insensitive to such things.
But know that you’re saved by Jesus, by faith. Not by keeping the Sabbath. Even if you fail to follow the law in the end times you’re still saved by faith alone.
Personally I’d rather take my family somewhere the gospel can be preached boldly. But if that’s not possible for you then it’s enough that you know here and now. God bless.
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1. I am not judging you.
2. You aren’t saved by Sabbath observance. You aren’t saved by obeying the law. You are saved by grace.
3. You tell me you’ll be saved by faith if (in your professed faith) you continue to sin? Interesting.
4. Hebrews 9:23 “Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.”
Where these refers to animal sacrifices and Jesus is a better sacrifice.
The preceding verses describe the sanctuary service.
I hope you see the “copies” part.
Explain that.
5. I do not teach adventism nor Ellen White.
6. If you would be so kind to post the full version of my “sermon” for your readers to decide for themselves I’d be pleased. The one you trimmed “a bit.”
7. Probably not here, but you did mention your disbelief of the sanctuary being a copy/replica/pattern of a sanctuary in heaven. However, you based on a premise of it being true to refute a denominational teaching. Why then are you denying the chance to base on the same premise?
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1. I claim SDA are wrong and you said this is judging. Isn’t your attempted correction of me in and of itself judging by your own use of the term? If so your argument is self defeating.
2. I’m glad we agree that Ellen White was wrong, and certainly a false prophet for teaching that the Sabbath must be kept by human efforts without a mediator in the end times.
3. Professed faith is a work. Faith is given by God. It’s something he puts in you. Confession of that faith is a good work. Not the most pious work one can do but a good work just the same. Paul was a sinner too, even after receiving faith. You won’t reach perfection this side of heaven.
4. Still not seeing the word replica or copy in there. With respect I think you’re imagining the thesis. It’s simply not in the text.
5. Glad to hear that we both reject adventism and Ellen White. Praise God!
6. No, keep your comments point by point. With respect I refuted the entire thing by pointing out that the sanctuary on Earth was not a replica. And you have failed to refute that so I honestly don’t have a need to address your conclusions that were based on that.
This isn’t a debate. I host the comments for any apologetic value that they may add to the reader. If there is no apologetic value then I don’t host it.
Exegete every single thought from scripture that gets you to replica and we will go there.
You can prove there is a sanctuary in heaven. You can prove God gave Moses a pattern for the sanctuary on Earth. But you cannot prove that the pattern given was a replica. It could have simply been a different design and function altogether. Replica is an assumption that must be brought to the text. I’m simply unwilling to grant that assumption without proof. Fair enough?
7. You still haven’t proven your claim. Let’s start there. Exegete replica and we will move forward.
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Psalm 89:34.
Covenant obsolete?
Interesting.
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He didn’t alter it he fulfilled it.
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13 ESV
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Anyone that teaches an 1844-millerite-concocted jesus is teaching someone who never lived, died, or resurrected, thus they have no forgiveness, but they do promote a false gospel and false jesus, which shows they are cursed. It seems as though SDA arrogance and pride is worth everything to those who are perishing.
I have yet to see an SDA repent of the sin of SDA teachings. SDA’ism is 100% sin.
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SDA is a worldwide dangerous cult
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